AAUP Presents

Academic Freedom On the Line: The Students

• The AAUP • Season 5 • Episode 5

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In this episode, we speak with a coalition of student leaders actively organizing against state-level DEI bans in Texas and Kentucky. This is the third episode in the special series, "Academic Freedom on the Line," being produced in conjunction with the AAUP's Center for the Defense of Academic Freedom (CDAF).  Host Vineeta Singh also speaks with Clare Carter at the Freedom to Learn team to help us understand how state legislatures have attacked the principles of academic freedom, institutional autonomy, and shared governance, and then we get to hear from the students about what this has looked like on their campus, and how they have mobilized against these attacks. 

The episode guests are:

  • Clare Carter, the Program Assistant for the Freedom to Learn Program at PEN America where she and the Freedom to Learn team work to combat state legislation that would censor higher education. You can reach her at ccarter at pen dot org 
  • Dionicia Berrones, a Texas Students for DEI member who supports the collective with Administrative + Operational Tasks, Onboarding, and Outreach. She is completing an Ed.M. in Education Leadership, Organizations, and Entrepreneurship with a concentration in Identity, Power, and Justice in Education at the Harvard Graduate School of Education.  
  • Angel Yongyin Huang, a senior at the University of Texas at Austin, majoring in Sociology and minoring in Social Work. Angel is also the Economic Opportunity Fellow for Every Texan and a leader in Students Engaged in Advancing  (SEAT), where she has been at the forefront of protecting students' rights by opposing educational censorship bills. 
  • Laysha Renee Gonzalez, a proud daughter of Mexican immigrants and a first-generation college student. With the support of the Terry Foundation Scholarship, she achieved her dream of studying at The University of Texas at Austin, majoring in Race, Indigeneity, and Migration and Plan II Honors, with minors in Government and Women’s and Gender Studies, set to be the first in her lineage to graduate from a U.S. university this May.
  • Savannah Dowell, a third-year undergraduate student at the University of Louisville double-majoring in history and gender studies with a minor in humanities. She’s also an organizer with the Kentucky Student Coalition for DEI focusing on student outreach and collaboration between public universities across the Commonwealth.
  • Bradley Price, from Lexington, Kentucky by way of Natchitoches, Louisiana, is a junior undergraduate student at the University of Louisville, double-majoring in Pan-African Studies and English Literature with a minor in creative writing. She’s an organizer with the Kentucky Student Coalition for DEI, focusing on social media and collaboration between public universities across the Commonwealth.  

Links: 

Academic Freedom on the Line Episode 3: Student Leaders on the Line

Savannah: Now today when they say DEI, um. Matter of fact, I've act I'd actually be the, the first in line to denounce the real DEI. it's not enough. We need vocal anti-racism. Um, DEI was barely a bandaid to structural issues that needed, , needed surgery. But when the w right talks about DEI, now specifically when it comes to higher education, they aren't just after the pesky hiring practices and diversity trainings, they're after this broad and unintelligible array of anything and everything that could maybe ever be construed to, um, topics of race, gender, sexuality, disability, or whatever else. 

Vineeta: Welcome to AAUP Presents, a podcast by the American Association of University Professors. I'm Vineeta Singh. And this is the third episode of our special series co-produced with the Center for [00:01:00] the Defense of Academic Freedom, which we're calling Academic Freedom on the Line. Today I'll be talking with some stellar student organizers who are fighting to protect teaching and research in ethnic studies, gender studies, and other fields implicated in the quote unquote, DEI bans sweeping state legislatures since 2020.

The quintessential example of this kind of legislation might be Texas's SB 17. A bill that required universities in the state to close their diversity, equity, and inclusion offices, ban any mandatory diversity training and restrict hiring departments from asking for diversity statements. The student leaders who are speaking with me will help us understand how the chilling effect of bands like this far exceed the letter of the law. 

But first, I'm [00:02:00] joined by Clare Carter, program assistant for the Freedom to Learn team at Penn America who's working with these student leaders and put them in touch with us.

Welcome Clare, and thank you so much.

Could you get us started by telling us a little bit more about your work with Pan America and what the Freedom to Learn team has been up to?

Clare: Yeah, absolutely.  I'm Clare Carter. I'm the program assistant for the Freedom to Learn Team. And, I started at Penn America in September and my work, um, with, uh, Amy Reed, the senior manager of the team has been to defend higher education against legislative attacks.

Um, the Freedom to Learn team's mission is to,track state legislation, um, and defend higher education against state legislation that would, infringe on institutional autonomy, academic freedom, and free expression. 

Um, so that can be, uh, DEI bans, that can be curricular control. So, you know, the, what we call educational gag orders. Um, it's also being affected by indirect censorship and that can look, A few different ways. [00:03:00] So, um, the first indirect censorship that I'll talk about because, um, this is something that, uh, the students touch on a lot, is DEI bans.

So we call that indirect censorship because, um, they were trying to, uh, limit activity mostly outside of the classroom.

That was the official text. And yet because of the chilling effect that the DEI bands have on campuses. it, it doesn't matter if the legislation, if the legislature wasn't trying to close the cultural center, for instance, or, uh, chill a faculty speech, they're going to do it anyway because administrators are scared of losing funding or because, um, legislators are, they are informally pressuring the administrators to, over comply with the law by, uh, doing what University of North Texas did, for example, which is scrutinizing course content or doing what universities in Utah did, which was, uh, closing cultural centers.

Even though the DEI ban did not [00:04:00] require that they had to close cultural centers. That's one form of indirect censorship. And then another form of indirect censorship, um, that we touch on. And this isn't an, an exhaustive list, it's what we call jaw boning. So I've kind of touched on this a little bit.

It's, um, informal pressure, especially from legislators to, um, try to enact a certain change in the absence of a law. uh, for instance, the president of the University of Kentucky, um. After helping to defeat, A DEI ban in, in Kentucky, he disbanded the offices of Institutional Diversity. and the reason why he did that is because he said he listened to policymakers and because he, um, expected that another, attempted ban would happen in the next session.

So, um, that's an example of, what we call jaw boning. what is listen to policymakers means, it means the policymakers were like, Hey, even though this didn't pass, we would really like you to do this. And, um, and that's what happened. 

Vineeta: So when we're thinking about attacks on academic [00:05:00] freedom and uh, the people who are stepping up to defend academic freedom, institutional autonomy, and shared governance practices, there seems to be a real lack of leadership on the administrative side. So can you tell us a little bit about how you think students fit into this picture?

Clare: Yeah, I think it would be fair to say definitely the students are they are, they are stepping up and being courageous.

 where we are unfortunately we aren't seeing a lot of courage right now, and it's because people are scared of losing funding. Um, but these students are really putting themselves out there, um, in a very courageous way, and they're really having an impact. I mean, they're being covered by, um, news stations.

 they're, getting support, but from community members and legislators. and their work is really, really important because, they are the ones that are, uh, you know, academic freedom is, is certainly about faculty and 

 it's [00:06:00] also central to academic freedom is the student's freedom to learn. Um, and so. They are defending their own freedom to learn. And, um, that's very courageous 

 so yeah, I, I definitely think it's fair to say that that their leadership is, uh, is, it's filling a hole that has been left by, by a lot of fear. 

 Absolutely. And so can you tell us a little bit about how, uh, pet America came to work with these student organizers? so Amy and I have been pulling together, coalitions of folks across the United States that have been working against these legislative tax in their respective states. we heard from, from folks that it would be helpful, um, in. Organizing if we, with our contacts in, in separate states, if we could pull them together to kind of have like a national conversation and then after that, it kind of became like a, concerted effort to reach out to student leaders [00:07:00] specifically.

 it, it's helpful for a student group, in Iowa, for instance, to, um, hear about the efforts of, of a student group in Texas, um, because, essentially they're fighting the same fight. the DEI ban that we're seeing in Iowa, it's super similar to the one we're seeing in Texas, super similar to the one we're seeing in Ohio, in Kentucky.

Um, so I've pulled together, uh, that coalition and they've really been talking to each other and doing their, and continuing to do their work.

Vineeta: And is this an ongoing conversation? Like, are students still able to join the coalition now?

Clare: Yes. Um, I'm super keen to hear from any student activist.We can put my email in the show notes, but I am super, um, keen to hear from any student in any state who is working in defense of higher education, that is defending against DEI bans, uh, defending against, control of curriculum including ethnic studies, gender studies, defending against, uh, the closure of cultural centers because of state legislation.

Vineeta: We certainly will. , and so let's turn it [00:08:00] over now to our student organizers.

 Can I just ask everyone to introduce themselves so our listeners can identify our speakers?

Dionicia: I am Dionicia my pronouns are she her Ella. I'm an alumni of UT Austin, where I graduated with my Bachelors of Arts in Mexican American and Latino, Latino studies. Let's go. And then government. And I'm currently at the Harvard Graduate School of Education doing a master's in education leadership, um, with the concentration in identity, power and justice in education.

Angel: Hello, my name is Angel Huang. I go by she her pronouns. I'm a current senior at UT Austin and I'm a sociology major. Um, double minoring in social work and Asian American studies. Um, I am. A current economic opportunity fellow at every Texan, which is a think tank based in Texas, and I focus on higher education and public education policy in the current 89th Texas legislative [00:09:00] session.

Um, I. I am also a lead for students engaged in advancing Texas as well as students for DEI. 

Laysha: My name is Laysha Renee Gonzalez. I use, she her a pronouns.

I'm a current senior as well at UT Austin. I study race indigeneity and migration. And I also study Plan two honors very, very different roles and experiences in those two. And I also have minors in governments and women's and gender studies. 

 I'm also involved, um, with Texas students for DEI.

 my role is more, has been more so, um, in terms of social media. Um, so creating engagements, um, helping with, you know, the publishing of whatever graphics or like.

Um, so yeah, that's kind of like been my role. 

Bradley: I'm Bradley Price. I'm from Lexington, Kentucky, but I [00:10:00] currently attend the University of Louisville, Louisville, Kentucky. Um, and our state legislature recently overturned our governor's veto on house Bill four, which Destroys all, uh, DEI programs at at Kentucky Higher Education, uh, higher education institutions.

Um, I'm a part of, uh, Kentucky students for DEI with Savannah. And, um, we fought this. We even had a day of DEI, but they still, uh, passed it. 

 So, yeah, it's a scary time here in Kentucky. 

Savannah: Um, my name is Savannah Dowell. I am also a student at the University of Louisville. I'm a third year history and gender studies double major with a minor in the humanities. Um, like Bradley said, the Kentucky General Assembly, it just passed house Bill four, which attacks DEI.

And it also, um, it also passed house Bill 4 24, which attacks tenure. [00:11:00] Um, and it also overrode every single one of Governor Andy Bess Shear's vetoes, um, before the legislative session ended on March 28th. Um, yeah, Bradley and I worked together to start the student coalition for DEI at the University of Louisville and then the statewide Kentucky Student Coalition for DEI.

And we've been working super hard to fight these pieces of legislation. Um, and now we're shifting our focus to the campus level to make sure our institutions don't over comply out of fear, like, um, UK and in KU specifically have already. Um, I'm also a member of the United Campus Workers of Kentucky, which is our wall-to-wall campus worker union fighting, um, representing student worker, staff and faculty.

Laysha: Wonderful. Thank you all, and thank you for being here today. I had love for you to help us ground this conversation by digging a little deeper into what it is that's being attacked by these DEI bands, right?

Vineeta: And so I'm thinking here of how, you know, when we were talking about those. Quote unquote critical race theory bands in K through 12 schools. It [00:12:00] seemed pretty evident to most stakeholders that there wasn't actually critical race theory in most of these classrooms, right? Uh, what was actually being attacked under the guise of these CRT bands was any kind of representation of,black, brown, indigenous people of color, uh, queer folks in classrooms and in K through 12 curriculum.

So similarly, can you help us maybe understand a little bit better what exactly is put on the line when we're talking about these, uh, quote unquote DEI bands?

Laysha: . So when I talk about, and we're, made to think about how the legislature has, you know. EE extremely been escalating. I know my peers, um, students, um, fellow student, fellow alum, and also staff experience, we all have, emphasized [00:13:00] the complete dismantling, the complete, corrupted ra erasure of safe havens for so many students of all walks of life.

Um, and particularly to speak more on, okay, yes, they erased whatever they, consider DEI. Well, let's talk about what those spaces were. Um, you have the Monarch program, the Monarch program, which was a program to support immigrant students. Immigrant students can be white, they can be heterosexual, they can be everything that our legislators and supposed leaders, um, want to align on one side of the angle and say, oh, that is the exception for DEI, that is still DEI because the immigrant experience is something that involves absolutely anybody under this globe.

And so that's one example. The Monarch program. You also had another program that lived for so many years to empower black women particularly, but just. [00:14:00] Women in general, just women who historically have not had the fruits of, you know, this nation that we say. And so the fear that that is, that program is the Fearless Leadership Institute, um, that is gone.

Um, you also have, um, another program, or must I say a physical space because this is not just an attack on the identities of people, it is literally an attack on spaces, physical spaces. And that is what the MEC known on the UT campus, but that is the multicultural engagement center. Multicultural.

Multicultural. I always say that UT is always, emphasizing and, you know, carrying, the weight of being such a leader in the world really of a scholarship of research. But of also diversity. And so whenever they say what starts here changes the world, I have forever said, um, on my time, really [00:15:00] speaking out about this and advocating for these communities that, you know, we can't possibly say we want to change the world if we don't even want to acknowledge and represent what the world looks like.

So yeah, that's definitely the environments that we are experiencing, not only at UT Austin, but absolutely at every corner of this country.

Angel: Yeah. Um, I love what you brought up because this. Is literally so true again, as another UT student because, um, I remember when, so I've been hearing pieces of what's, uh, like behind the scenes of like certain, uh, legislators specifically of who chose to do this.

 So, um. One big name within Texas Ledge, specifically for education policy is Brandon Creighton. he apparently the reason why, um, when initially at SB 17 was first like put in place like, um, [00:16:00] you know, UT Austin was trying to find loopholes, right?

They were like, we were trying to figure out other ways to rename things, rebrand things to like fit into what they were saying, that how we can comply with, right? And the reason why they started cracking down harder was because branding Creighton came to campus and he overheard some other students, or someone told him, ratted on us, told to him like, Hey, they've just been renaming and rebranding things.

And because of the fact that he learned about that, he then like insisted listening to what, um, the, the state legislator was pushing for.

And that is literally not what the students wanted at all. And that was shown through the fact that we had a huge, like, protest that happened back in, last year. And it went crazy. Like the, the state troopers came, um, there were people arrested. Um, there were people charged. It was, it was too much.

Like, and the reason why is because literally the president had the. Connections right to the state legislator and they were [00:17:00] working together to use UT as an example to show to the, not just to us as students, but UT in Texas is a symbol of, I guess, of the more progressive and liberal, like, like students and like what we as students are like, our voices are meaning in, in, in Texas.

And so what they were using us for was when they crept down hard on, on SB 17 at ut they were using us as an example for, to all the other schools. Hey, if you do this, you'll end up like ut you'll end up losing funding, you will get everything cut. 

And I think because of that, the students are speaking up more because we're like. This is literally what university's for. This is where we can speak up and we're learning about like our, our rights, right? And these are just our human rights and they're literally just not abiding by it.

Dionicia: You watch them literally rewind a clock. I think the biggest [00:18:00] like, I guess thing that sticks to me is like I was a student there. This is where like alumni perspective, right? Like I got to go to school. During 2018 to 2022, pandemic happened in the middle. So like physical spaces, you know, kind of were interrupted by something out of our control.

But when it came to like the existence of the multicultural engagement center and the leadership development that you could gain through a space like that and being able to like really connect, I guess with individuals that did not have to look like you, but they just could like understand experiences and live to.

In that sense it was there and it was present and you had seen how that space could grow. And then another thing that kind of like always sticks with me and like where you watch it change was the also removal of the gender and sexuality center. Um, I think having that space go away was us actually watching it, like piece by piece go back.

So when they process name changes from gender and sexual gender and sexuality center, GSC, okay, that is something that Texas ledge really bites [00:19:00] at. They were immediately trying to get rid of it. So they go and they transition that space over to the women. It was like Women's Community Center, which if folks, um, knew about the history of the GSC, of the Gender and Sexuality Center, you would've known that it started, it like became the GSC in itself.

Because at first it was like a women's like resource space that was operating on one side, and then it was like an L-G-B-T-Q. I think it was like they, uh, layered the layers, the letters differently, sorry, like G-L-B-T-A agency that decided to come together, create a joint center for long-term sustainability in 2002.

And I have kept that in the top of mind as something, Um. That like you literally watched one policy, rewind the clock and watched the process of it rewinding the clock 22 years. You watched in 2024, which is when they made the announcement that Women's Community Center was actually completely gone.

That clock hit like you basically restarted, you went back to zero. 

And [00:20:00] that is incredibly enraging. When you come from, you are the person they wanted to hire because you were able to thrive, grow, be empowered by those spaces. So that understanding of the dynamic of how the transition process looked, it was not just a clock being rewound in like a GSC example. It was happening to yourself as an individual on the staff member side of things.

 uh, basically I feel like the right wing is attacking, uh, institutions of higher ed, mainly because they're trying to take the United States into a fascist state. So they are turning universities into fascist states themselves. This can be seen with, at UK president Caputo.

Bradley: He completely dismantled his faculty senate. he is essentially a mini dictator at the University of Kentucky. the University of Louisville. We, we still have our faculty senate, uh, but they just appointed a new president [00:21:00] without taking any, in any considerations to, from our faculty, or from any of our staff.

Um, there's a whole process that there was supposed to be happening. Uh, the board trustees completely skipped that entire process. they skipped the interim and they just appointed new president. So we are clearly on a right wing shift and, uh, because the university system is a microcosm of all of these issues of why students are fighting for rights on campus because the students have so much more opportunity to organize.

That's why they're cracking down on students so much because all the change that has ever happened in the United States history has come from students. Uh, this could be seen in the Black Studies movement. This could be seen in the Civil Rights movement. This could be seen in the Chicano rights movement.

Like the university is a microcosm of all of these rights and all these ideas, [00:22:00] and that's why they're cracking down. That's why Columbia and Texas are these ground zero events to where you have university administrators unleashing the full force of the police state. On their students.

 because, our student for Justice in Palestine chapter, uh, recently tried to get,a resolution through our student government association, to, for us to divest from the state of Israel due to the genocide and Gaza, a senator sat up and he said, if we do this, we will look like Columbia. So the fear tactics are working, and that's the thing that scares me the most because now students will have nowhere.

Like now students will have nowhere to turn. We will be among the first victims of this fast shift in America. And I think that's like, what's so scary about it?

Savannah: Um, I think there's such a stark difference [00:23:00] actually between what DEI actually is and what it's historically been. diversity, equity, and inclusion, those guiding principles that set out to give marginalized people more access to corporate America and everything that the right is after.

Now today when they say DEI, Matter of fact, I've act I'd actually be the first in line to denounce the real DEI. Um, it's not enough. We need vocal anti-racism. Um, DEI was barely a bandaid to structural issues that needed, needed surgery. But when the w right talks about DEI, now specifically when it comes to higher education, they aren't just after the pesky hiring practices and diversity trainings, they're after this broad and unintelligible array of anything and everything that could maybe ever be construed to, um, topics of race, gender, sexuality, disability, or whatever else.

Um, in Kentucky, for example, we just banned with our house bill for race-based scholarships. Um, like the prestigious Martin Luther King scholarship [00:24:00] program, Bradley is a member of, gender-based scholarships. Offices and resource centers like our Women's center and our LGBT Center, um, it mandated institutional neutrality.

It bans a slew of so-called indoctrination courses, um, and it bans bias investigations. Let's just like sit with that for a minute. We can no longer investigate incidents of bias on campus. That's crazy. So we're in this insane situation. We have to fight for the barest minimum of our institutions to not be openly racist.

So the question, what are we fighting for? We're fighting for the right of minoritized communities to have an access to higher education. We're fighting for the future of higher education because this attack on DEI is just another thinly veiled attempt to further destroy our universities and our administrators are just sitting by and letting it happen.

And so to get even further up on my soapbox, [00:25:00] there's this book called The Idea of the University by Cardinal John Henry Newman, um, about obviously the role of higher education in society. Um, and the main argument is summed up here. So the university training aims at, in a quote, raising the intellectual tone of society at cultivating the public mind at purifying the national taste, at supplying true principles to popular enthusiasm and fixed aims to popular aspiration at giving enlargement and sobriety to the ideas of the age, uh, facilitating the exercise of political power and at refining the intercourse of private life.

So first of all, shout out to Dr. Anne Hall for introducing me to this text. Second of all, let's unpack that for a minute. Um, so what in the world happened between that vision of higher education and where we're at now when Kentucky Senator j Williams tells a room full of students and professors that we don't need any more people going to universities.

We need you to be roofers and construction workers. On the record, he said that [00:26:00] on the record, during a Senate Education Committee meeting, what happened? What happened is that neoliberalism killed higher education. Higher education has been undergoing decades of change and cuts not to serve its students and the general public, but to serve corporate interests.

So now we're living through the collapse of higher education. We have a choice to make. Do we wanna organize, do we wanna fight for better, more democratic and more free universities that address issues faking the working poor and oppressed people? Or do we want a university that oppresses its student staff and faculty and enriches the pockets of the wealthiest individuals in this nation?

I think the choice is pretty clear, but apparently that's quite a divisive topic.

Vineeta: And I don't think it's a coincidence that that sort of austerity at universities is temporarily coincident with the institutionalization of fields of study that allow us to think critically about [00:27:00] gender, sexuality, race. Right. 

Bradley: Uh, I am an English literature and Pan-African studies major. I belong to the most historic Pan-African studies department.

We were the first in the south. Um, and basically, uh, we have a very story history here at the University of Louisville's campus. my department has a history of activism. many of the, uh, professors are community organizers such as Ricky Jones, uh, Dr. Ricky Jones and Dr. Kyla's story. 

And the way my department got established here on campus is a bunch of black students got together and demanded for there to be change, particularly the Black student Union here on campus. Um, and they took over, uh, not only the president's office, but also the college, the office of the Col, college of Arts and Sciences as well.

Um, and it led to many of them getting expelled, [00:28:00] such as our now Senator Gerald Neal and our future, uh, Dean of the College of Arts and Sciences, uh, Dr. J Blaine Hudson. And essentially, uh, what, why they're coming after my department in particular is because we have such a radical and revolutionary history, um, not only across the nation, but in Kentucky itself.

Uh, like our Pan-African studies majors have gone on to do amazing things 

 so essentially our professors are, uh, are nurturing the next generation of organizers and activists, and. Uh, especially for black students, they're leaders for black students. Um, like a lot of the black students really love our professors in the Pan-African studies department.

So the direct attack on the Pan-African Studies Department is an attack on black students. Uh, just like taking away race-based [00:29:00] scholarships. They attacked one of the largest scholarships here on campus, the, uh, Woodford Porter Scholarship. And it, it serves like hundreds of students on campus. And now who knowswhat they're gonna do with it.

Uh, 'cause they might just change the name of it because it's named after a black man. Um, and I think that's like my biggest fear is that we have the most diverse institution, in Kentucky, but only 8% of our students are black. They came for 8% of our students in our, in our administration did nothing.

And then after house, house Bill four passed, they said effectively nothing.and then our, our president quit. That's what happened right after. So I don't know what we're going to do next. I don't know where the steps are next. I just hope that when I come back, I still have, uh, my major and my professors still [00:30:00] have their jobs.

Angel: Yeah. Um, I love what you're saying, Bradley, because, hearing what you were saying and your experience and, um, it reminded me about how I, uh, so I am, um, an Asian American, um, studies minor. 

Um, one thing to note is that ut is actually the, apparently the only one, um, in the south to have an Asian American studies department. Um, so it's the first and only in the south. And the way it came up is very similar to what you were saying, Bradley, with how your, um, your department came up, which is like students, the Asian American students on campus, which were the UT 10, they combined forces and protested on campus in order to gain, um, this program to, to even exist.

And very interestingly, I was talking to one of my Asian American professors,

Um, and so my professor was telling me how, um, he is afraid [00:31:00] that, faculty will lose their jobs, specifically the ones who work in ethnic studies departments or any departments that are going to, um, specifically talk about race, ethnicity, all these more nuance issues, right? 

Like legislators will work towards creating these new bills in order to distract us to, to basically make professors, make faculty afraid to hold these conversations, um, at, on campus, in classrooms. And what it's going to do is basically kill it from the inside by trying to, to create this fear.

And again, this is repetitive, but this is just, um, their slow way of rebranding, rebranding and rebranding to the point where you just get to the point of like, there is an end and the end is no education. 

Savannah: But these programs, like the Pan-African Studies program that Bradley is a part of the Asian American studies programs that [00:32:00] angel is a part of, women in gender studies programs. They didn't fall outta the sky and they weren't gifted to us by big woke.

They were, they were fought for, and they were won by students who faced every obstacle. They, uh, including disciplinary action expulsion, but they persisted so that we today could have access to these vital social sciences programs. So shout out student movements. 

Dionicia: Agree, agree, agree, agree, agree.

Because that was gonna be part of me answering like me and my experience with Latino studies and malls, the malls program in general, which Latino studies at UT Austin is kind of a collective of three departments that focus on Latino research. The like Mexican-American experience and Latino studies.

So it's like this kind of like collective within itself, within an education setting, which is already inspiring as a whole. But like for me, describing why I even went into that or why, how I take that education with me, I literally just wanted my degree to give you on the transcript, on on paper.

One can say to say [00:33:00] that yes, I cared about policies and procedures and things like government because of what I wanted to do, but I wanted it to say Mexican American and Latino latina studies. Why? Because that is me. That is like a part of me. That is who I am, that is my identity. There is so much value within.

You being able to bring your identity and who you are and who you are as just a human. That can be vulnerable, that can feel, that can grow, that can change, that can develop within your educational setting. That is education. That is what it should be, and that's what it should exist within. I just wanted Latino studies and that experience of being in there as something that I was like being exposed to, just being con connected to, and then I started learning and learning the sport, like importance of exploring history.

And I think the like second half of uh, I guess like talking about how I'm taking that with me, it's as an educator, as a person that worked in higher education, as someone now that is within the education setting, just kind of learning and growing and thinking about what's [00:34:00] going on in real life, how do we change like that ability to feel empowered through academia.

It's not the only way that you can be empowered and like really build community, but it's something that is so essential to see yourself within text, to see what you can do and like have the ability to like. Not be so deficit centered when, when spoken about, but center yourself around desire, like what you wanna see.

Um, someone as a joke, but I think I I will take it with me as a compliment, was like they are afraid of the girl that graduated the like Latina woman from Austin that graduated from a Latino studies and ethnic studies department and is now at Harvard trying to think about the future of education.

They're meant to fear what we can learn from our own history when we are sitting within educational spaces that were not meant for us. So I will end with that. I love Latino studies. 

Vineeta: can you tell us more about the organizing efforts that y'all are involved with on your campus, [00:35:00] off campus? And I, if there's calls to action that you wanna share with our listeners, I would love to hear if there's things that people in your states can do to help you If there's things that people outside of your state can do to support you.

Dionicia: If you are in Texas, if you are interested in what Texas has been doing, come join Texas students for DEII will give you the link, but we have an onboarding form. We ask for folks to get involved if you believe in our collective goals. And we take anyone that is within Texas that is caring about these things.

So we have professors that already are working with us. We have folks that are alumni. Hello me present. We have current students. We have people that are just staff members that are actively involved within the space and our collective goals that we are. Basically working on is to serve and center those, the students across Texas.

Please come support if you care about centering student voices, if [00:36:00] you care about persuading and educating the public about why DEI policies are critical. If you know how to uplift data, research, storytelling, and everything of the sort to create the future that we wanna see within education, please come join us.

And if you're not a Texas person, follow our Instagram anyway because we are still posting about what's going on and unfortunately, Texas is becoming a little bit of the playbook. So might as well be aware before it comes and knocks you off your feet. That is my Texas Foods for DEI promo. 

Yeah, Everyone please do support, um, students for DEII am also a member of it, um, but I love the work they do. but another great org to also work with is students engaged in advancing Texas seat.

Angel: Um, so SEAT has. Also ma majority focused on, um, education policy within, uh, Texas students. But we have been branching and looking into doing more federal policies. So there [00:37:00] is a wanting to do a branching into more, uh, federal policies. And of course we just want as many students as possible to join our network because we just want to hear your voices and want to just create that connection.

Um, another thing I want to talk about is, um, ethnic studies and pushing for that within Texas because clearly we are all learning so much from some kind of ethnic studies within, within our curriculums and, um, specifically in Texas. Mexican American and African American studies have been both been passed at, um, in Texas.

Um, but. Asian American and native slash indigenous studies has not been passed, and this has been an ongoing thing for the past two years at the State Board of Education, the SBOE at Texas. So what is happening is, so the State Board of Education, like they don't want to put it on the agenda list because once they do, then they have to address it, right?

And so they've been kind of delaying that. And so, [00:38:00] um, for local Texans, if you could like, please like, show up to SBOE meetings and just vocalize testify. Testifying is amazing. Writing, I don't like writing emails, writing, like sending them letters. Anything that is like written would be great to have that like physical write writing for them to see, to have proof that we as, um, a collective are showing up.

Um, another thing I wanna mention lastly is, wanting to get more allies involved. Um, I think especially during this time, um, there are certain populations that are not in the best place to right now be the main voices because they are being under attack. And I'm talking about those who are undocumented and who don't have the status because they, and we, um, as people who do have, um.

Um, more privilege. We need to step, step up and kind of help them with that by, by listening to them and seeing [00:39:00] what they need, what the community needs, right. And being the forefront for them. Because the, as someone who has like a, you know, a more like safe status here, we need to like, use our status in a way to protect those who can't right now.

We need more people to see, like, even if you feel like this issue isn't directing directly impacting you, um, being an ally, like we need those people who speak, who can be part of us because it shows that it's not just our community that cares. There are people outside of us with, outside of our context, also cares.

Um, but yeah, those main things. 

Laysha: Awesome. And just to kind of add and elaborate a little bit more, um, 

 I think my real message is to everybody, just like Angel said, how we need allyship and how we can't have, you know, just faces of color, you know, on the screens constantly, pleading for safety and literally pleading for representation and like cleaning for basic human rights.

We also need, other people to realize [00:40:00] the strength that being in a diverse space brings to everyone. And so I would really say that my, um, way of trying to find like something that. 

But really right now, something that we all have is our voice, right? And even though it feels like your voice is constantly being oppressed, whether you feel like nowadays, because I can say this myself, I feel like I'm constantly censoring myself. Maybe I've been censoring myself this whole interview because that's literally part of like, just this whole attack on just voices really.

 I think that really all it takes is just, you know, finding the courage, finding the community, and the strength and the support to just uplift and use your voice. So whether it was through like an A, b, C news, like interview or whether it's this or whether it's, speaking up at an immigrant rights protest that's coming up, or whether it's speaking up at events, um, for sexual assault awareness where, you use your story and you use your experiences to, you know, not have to use data, not have to [00:41:00] use numbers all the time.

There's all the reasons to be scared because they don't want you to speak up. But again, sometimes you just have to use your voice because that's the most powerful thing that us as students specifically have had historically forever.

Savannah: I can talk a little bit about Kentucky. Um, Bradley and I actually just started as the Kentucky Student Coalition for DEI last year. Um, and just like Texas is the blueprint for anti DEI legislation, y'all were also the blueprint for art organizing. So it's been an honor to be in this space with you all.

Um, but given that it was our first year, um, we did quite a lot. We built this coalition from the ground up. We got students from all over, to the capital city, Frankfurt, to testify against House Bill four and 4 24. Um, we coordinated a statewide day of DEI, like Bradley mentioned earlier, on all eight public university campuses that garnered over a thousand attendees.

We held a funeral for higher education on the steps of the capitalist. They overrode the vetoes. [00:42:00] Um, at U of L. Alexandria Underwood, who is our favorite SGA senator, passed a bill condemning house before on behalf of the entire University of Louisville student body. 

 Um, we're here for the long call. Kentucky passed HU before, but we left it all on the field and we've built out this collective of the most passionate, organized students. And now we're excited to debrief our campaign and make the appropriate changes.

 um, my call to action for students is to join a student movement. If there isn't one in your state. Organize one. Um, it's not as hard as it seems. Students have always been at the forefront of every social movement in US history. and so here we are again.

If you're a campus worker, join your union. Student movements and campus unions and Kentucky have stood together to fight our legislation in entirely unprecedented ways, and it's been really successful on, um, some of our campuses. Actually faculty told us that this was the highest level of sustained political activity that they'd seen in their decades of being there.

Um, so collaboration between student movements and campus [00:43:00] unions is the only path forward for creating institutions of higher education that are truly democratic and that serve us. Um, also more generally, students check in on each other. Um, ICE is abducting. Our friends, they were on U of L's campus a couple years ago trying to snatch someone out of a classroom.

Um, university police are surveilling our bravest SJP organizers. Um, be in community with the people who are in the most danger and ask them what they need. I'd also just like to extend a huge thank you, to all the A A UP members and generally all the faculty who have been in on this fight. speaking up for not only themselves, but also their students and the right to an education.

 so yeah, that's what's up.

Bradley: Um, I think a lot of students get bogged down in like the trenches, like Elisha said, get bogged down in the trenches of, well, what if I don't know enough? What if I mess up? What if I'm saying the wrong thing? what if I ruin my life speaking up for, uh, education [00:44:00] or per Palestine? 

 so what my final call is, is just basically look to history, look to the people around you, and you'll find strength within that. I do that with, I do that with like a lot of things that I do.

I do that with, uh, black feminists that came before me, and it brings me a lot of comfort. And you also don't let the Republicans punk you out, um, because you can't look at the Republicans and be like, oh, they're,so scary. They are scary. They're evil, but they're also dumb. And you need to understand that.

 

Vineeta: And on that note, we're going to end with a tremendous thank you to Claire Carter and the Freedom to Learn team at Penn America who made this conversation possible. And of course, to our amazing student leaders. You can find links to. The Texas students for D-E-I-D-E-I, the University of Louisville and Kentucky students for DEI in our show notes where you'll also find links to Penn America's work on educational censorship, including the 2024 report.

America's Censored Classrooms. You'll also see Claire's email address, which is cCarter@penn.org. 

I am Vineeta Singh, and this has been Academic Freedom on the Line, a special series of A AUP presents. Thank you for listening.